Comments on: Rumor: Images of Color HandEra Device Leaked

Someone who says he is the biggest Handera dealer in Germany has posted pictures and some details of what he says is a prototype color handheld from HandEra in PDABuzz's forums. According to him, the device runs Palm OS 4.1, has 16 MB of RAM, and 4 MB of ROM. It uses the Palm III connector which HandEra has modified to run at USB speeds. It uses an internal li-ion battery.
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Huh, bulky?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 12:18:42 PM #
This one really looks like a brick...
RE: Huh, bulky?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 12:21:13 PM #
Whatever. Its essentially the same size as the 330, which is slightly larger than the "thin" Palms, and noticably smaller than the bigger ones like the NR-series and most Pocket PCs. All while packing in more functionality and expansion options than any other Palm (and some Pocket PCs for that matter). If it's the same as the 330, it'll be much lighter than most as well.
RE: Huh, bulky? then its not for you!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 12:31:47 PM #
i am an m505 owner and i wouldnt buy this thing but i know a lot of people would. So my friend, its not for you and me but it doesnt mean we're the only consumer out there... in other words.. Sh#t up. =)
RE: Huh, bulky?
cykalan @ 6/8/2002 12:34:35 PM #
a brick? yes, but it's a brick and the only brick running on palm os features a built-in CF slot and SD slot. this is a brick but it is a pretty damn useful brick.

btw, the NR series is not big at all, it's long, but big would not be an appropiate description.

Alan
----
Read your manuals before you ask!!

RE: Huh, bulky?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 1:55:37 PM #
if this is a brick, than the NR70 is a cinder block!
RE: Huh, bulky?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 2:03:12 PM #
well, it's me again... I didn't say it's a bad palm OS PDA, it's just looking big. I own palm m515 and I'm happy with it, but that doesn't mean I am not allowed to comment on handera.. ok? :)
RE: Huh, bulky?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 3:14:17 PM #
> if this is a brick, than the NR70 is a cinder block!

No comparison here, NR70 is the BEST and most POWERFUL PDA available in the market today and Handera ? What is that ? It's only a brick, an ugly brick.

Best, huh?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 6:16:12 PM #
There is no one "best" handheld, because everyone's needs are different. For instance, I don't need Wi-Fi if I don't have a Wi-Fi network around--or if I don't choose to use a handheld on one.
RE: Huh, bulky?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 7:00:57 PM #
..and the world is beautiful place, where everything is equally magnificent and devine....

(what is this? kindergarten trip to the Zoo?)

RE: Huh, bulky?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 9:34:27 PM #
Sony is crap. Everything looks like the ugly a$$ stereos of the 70's. Hell even their car stereos are the same awful fake metallic look. Ugly exsits everywhere in each of the manufacturers product lines. Most of these people probably want Abercrobie & Bitch to brand a Palm device.

Those who predict that every company that produces a Palm based unit should be purchased by Sony are IDIOTS. Why do you want one company to produce all Palm devices? we all know how well that has worked in the IT sector.

Sorry for the rambling but the comments on this board have degraded to the Slashdot level. I want useful information and opinions. That is what I used to find here.

RE: Huh, bulky?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 10:07:23 PM #
Hey genius, you wrote:

"Sorry for the rambling but the comments on this board have degraded to the Slashdot level. I want useful information and opinions. That is what I used to find here."

But you began buy saying:

"Sony is crap. Everything looks like the ugly a$$ stereos of the 70's. Hell even their car stereos are the same awful fake metallic look. Ugly exsits everywhere in each of the manufacturers product lines. Most of these people probably want Abercrobie & Bitch to brand a Palm device."

Yeah, very two-face of you.

RE: Huh, bulky?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 10:38:20 PM #
It is the only thing you people understand.
RE: Huh, bulky?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 1:11:41 PM #
you speak trash.
RE: Huh, bulky?
Bartman007 @ 6/10/2002 1:12:25 AM #
"No comparison here, NR70 is the BEST and most POWERFUL PDA available in the market today and Handera ? What is that ? It's only a brick, an ugly brick."

Come again? I have to hand it to the Sony Visual Appeal Design Department but....

The shape of the NR70 is too cumbersome. You have to either use it sitting open (sometimes a very hard proposition, like when walking) or sacrifice the app buttons and be left with only the jog dial. and back button. I won't even start on the button layout for gaming but then again I will **** now, even though I am an owner of a 710c the handheld with the stiffest buttons in the world (I had to modify them so I could play games.... quite fun) But I also have to look at the fact that many PDA owners do not play games...


hmm.. this post may not make no sence what-so-ever because I'm on muscle relaxants right now - torn muscle in my back =(

Oh well,
Peace
-Bartman007

RE: Huh, bulky?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 6:10:49 AM #
dude, I hope you didn't suffer that muscle tear from "gaming" on your PDA too much. Buy a gameboy and leave the mature electronics to the grown-ups.
RE: Huh, bulky?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 8:55:23 AM #
Leave the "mature electronics" to people who start their sentences with "dude"? Gaming is a perfectly mature way to use a PDA. I'm a "mature" CEO and I love games on my PDA.
RE: Huh, bulky?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 10:18:26 PM #
The original Palm III was 4.7 by 3.2 by .7 inches. This device would thus be .05 inches wider. This is larger than the Palm V/m5xx units, but much, much smaller than most other units, including the PocketPCs.

Where do I sign up?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 12:39:36 PM #
I want one.
Where it says ''SUCKER!''
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 12:44:45 PM #
It shouldn't be too hard to find, the list should be blank...
RE: Where do I sign up?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 10:10:28 PM #
ha ha

Uuuugly

kevdo @ 6/8/2002 12:39:37 PM #
I didn't think making a PDA uglier than the Handera 330 was possible.

Until now.

Boy that thing is a dog...

-Kevin Crossman

RE: Uuuugly
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 12:43:40 PM #
Unless you're comparing it to an m5xx or a Palm V, I think it looks darn good.
RE: Uuuugly
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 2:11:59 PM #
Wow Handera Certainly has a Talent for making the ugliest PDA's EVER!
RE: Uuuugly
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 3:17:56 PM #
Yup,cannot agree with you more. 50 thousand ? I think it should be 5 thousand .
RE: Uuuugly
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 4:15:48 PM #
I'm sure there's no point in responding to the ugly troll, but I just don't get where the ugly comments are coming from. Handspring has never produced any device that even looks this good, and the Palm m1xx devices are nothing to write home about either. Other than the Palm V and m5xx devices and the Sony T series nothing looks very good, and you won't be packing this kind of functionality in those size devices for a while yet.
In the eye of the beholder...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 5:37:16 PM #
If you look over the various comments, you'll see a variety of opinions. On this new device--most of the comments on the aesthetics of it are negative. But there's a lot of range in what people do like. I think it means that HandEra does need a good industrial designer. Does that mean everyone will like the results? No.

To me, at least, it just goes to show that you can't expect one aesthetic design to please everyone any more than one featureset will.

I for one, like the Treo design--90, 180 and 270. I'm mixed on the Palm V/m5xx design. The Palm III series was ok, but lackluster (better in the darker tone, though). The m1xx--blah, ho-hum. The i705 would be better in actual metal rather than silver-painted plastic. Most of the Visors were ok; I liked the Edge, but not its stylus. The only Clies that really look worth much--IMO--are the T series. (That's aesthetically, remember, not in terms of the screen.)

But looks are only part of the picture anyway. While it would be good for HandEra to use a simple, understated design, there are a lot of other areas where their handhelds really deliver, and sometimes more so than other companies. And if this is a prototype, there may be other features and enhancements with more "wow" factor on the final result. Who knows? They may even give it a new look.

RE: Uuuugly
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 9:25:16 PM #
Some people are drawn to the Pontiac Aztec by its looks. some--but probably not as many as those who run from it. The Ford Taurus is probably nobody's dream car but gobs are sold. Understated styling excites few but repulses few. Handera could learn from this. Personally, I like the looks of the 330. It reminds me of a 50's jukebox. If Buck Rogers ever had a handheld it would surely look like a 330-a futuristic vision (from the past.) Am I the only one that likes its looks? And before anybody asks, I don't own one.
RE: Uuuugly
drac @ 6/8/2002 11:12:37 PM #
I don't understand it, really. Although I do lust over the extra pocketability of the Palm m5xx form factor, I absolutely LOVE the styling of the HE330- and I was delighted to be able to continue using my old keyboard, extra cradles and so on.

There's room in the market for many types of devices, and it is sad to see a quality board such as this one being polluted with the kind of juvenile rhetoric that we have seen such far.

If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we would find in each person's life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility.
~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (1819-1892)

d r. a. c h a r l e s
barbados

RE: Uuuugly
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 1:22:43 AM #
Objectively speaking, there's little denying that the prototype we're all commenting here on got hit with the same ugly stick that went to work on its predecessor - Handera really needs to drop some coin on an industrial designer and fire that 12 year old they currently have on the payroll.

That said, on paper it's hard to beat the functionality that this device brings to the table, provided it ever gets built. Frankly, if I didn't already buy a hideous, overweight cinder block of an NR70V, I'd really consider adding this one to my PDA "stable" - CF, SD, color, virtual grafitti, a wealth of accessories... Aside from the looks, what's not to like?

-Adam

RE: Uuuugly
Spitz @ 6/10/2002 6:32:17 AM #
Yeah, that thing is hideous.

First PDA: PEG-NR70V

Comments: Amazing and well worth my money. However, if you're not a fan of the camera than you're not a fan of the NR70V. Buying it sans camera would be a big mistake. IMO

RE: Uuuugly
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 9:01:58 AM #
I think it's ugly too, but the functionality really is more important to most people. There has always been a niche of consumers for whom the Handera has fit the bill perfectly. The dual expansion slots and III series accessories make it a very good choice for those who need versatility. It has a very unique set of features and they are important ones to some people.
Wow, that's ugly
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 11:46:34 AM #
The only way that could get uglier is if they made 2 of them.
RE: Uuuugly
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 12:05:09 PM #
Quit talking to yourself.

Not the Right Time

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 12:42:01 PM #
HandEra is too small a company to waste time on an OS 4.1 PDA now. I'm looking forward to what they can do with OS 5.
RE: Not the Right Time
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 5:43:15 PM #
maybe this unit is using some of the technology they plan to implement in their OS5 product
RE: Not the Right Time
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 4:30:01 PM #
And yet, to NOT release one, would waste all the development time spent on it. Remember the color QVGA Symbol prototype that was shown at PalmSource. It was running HandEra OS4.1 A fair amount of time has gone into it.

This Would've been AMAZING....

big_raji @ 6/8/2002 12:57:07 PM #
I personally admire the Handera 330, and will probably admire this device as well.

I just wish it came out a year ago.

I traded my Palm IIIxe for a Clie n610c last year, and I was amazed at the size difference. Realistically, it's not THAT big a difference when you're looking at it, but when you put it in your hand, it's like comparing the feel of a pencil with a thick magic marker.

I just couldn't go back to a Palm III form factor today.

---
What's Wrong With This Picture?
http://raj.phangureh.com/picture.html

What reason does Handera have for existing now?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 1:03:19 PM #
OK, this begs the question. So, they are going to come up with a color version of the brick. BFD. It seems that almost all of the innovations that people bought the Handera 330 for (memory, hi-res, virtual graffiti area, expansion card) have been incorporated into sleeker Palm OS devices from both Palm and Sony. So why Handera? Aside from tech geeks, who is going to buy this over the others?

The company's reluctance to produce the unit without retailer committments shows that they are wondering also. Even they don't know if this will sell. The Palm III form is so five-years-ago. A couple of years ago they may have had a niche but I just don't see it now.


RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 1:17:02 PM #
How exactly does this "beg the question"? Begging the question is a term used in argument, and I don't see how this begs the question:

http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/begging.htm

Anonymous Howard

RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 1:59:21 PM #
Oh god...****.
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 2:08:19 PM #
Handera is the only PALM device than can possibly have Wi-FI or 1Gig of expansion.
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 2:24:43 PM #
1 gig of expansion? Thank God. I was wondering how I was going to fit the entire NYC phone book on my external memory. Now if my batteries would only last as long as a typical search would.

I mean, this begs the question, does anyone even know of any Palm OS application that makes use of 1 gig of expansion? If so, let them know that there is a color version of the brick coming out.

RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 2:45:51 PM #
Ok first of all, there are tons of apps that can make use of of a one gig expansion card. I myself have over 300 MBs of medical software databases plus books, and journals that i could easily use to fill up I GB. But my view here is that in order for Handera to make this PDA unique and in order to justify the dated and bulky form factor, what they really need to do is include integrated BT. Something like this with virtual graffiti in my opinion would truely make a product stand out in today's crowded palm os market
RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 3:28:40 PM #
>Something like this with virtual graffiti in my
>opinion would truely make a product stand out in
>today's crowded palm os market

Not any more, NR70's virtual graffiti will be far more better than this "thing".

RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 3:38:53 PM #
> Not any more, NR70's virtual graffiti will be far more better than this "thing".

And just who built the NR70? That's right, a foreign company. It's no coincidence that both Palm and Handspring are in financial trouble. You see, the Japanese are experts in competing against our domestic markets with inferior products. If this continues, our fellow Americans will suffer unemployment. Our standards of living will degrade. We will not allow our economy be ruled by un-American principles.

I assure you, I'll be the first in line to purchase my color HandERA. We must support our American companies - especially in these times of uncertainty.

RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 4:19:01 PM #
> I assure you, I'll be the first in line to purchase my color HandERA

Remeber , u need to commit to buying 50 thousand of them .

Horrors!
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 5:11:37 PM #
>>>I assure you, I'll be the first in line to purchase my color HandERA. We must support our American companies - especially in these times of uncertainty.

Americans are so embarrasing when you get all patriotic!! I love that - with sony making inroads - you claim that these 'foreigners' are are pushing 'inferior' products on poor, helpless, americans! And to think - they way we helped out the whole world so much - you'd think they'd be more grateful for all the things we've done! Just stop it - we live in a different world now - okay? There aren't any commies under yr bed, the Japanese made it into the north american car market BECAUSE THEY WERE COMPETITIVE, and hiding behind 'troubled times' (terrorism - which is as old as humanity) as an excuse for this embarrassing pap is just plain silly. grow up.

RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 5:11:37 PM #
>>And just who built the NR70? That's right, a foreign company. It's no coincidence that both Palm and Handspring are in financial trouble. You see, the Japanese are experts in competing against our domestic markets with inferior products. If this continues, our fellow Americans will suffer unemployment. Our standards of living will degrade. We will not allow our economy be ruled by un-American principles.

>>I assure you, I'll be the first in line to purchase my color HandERA. We must support our American companies - especially in these times of uncertainty.

Is this guy being sarcastic?

RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 5:53:19 PM #
Handera has no reason for existing anymore, I really wish they would get in the game or off the god damn fence. I bet they will not even have the balls to reply to this. No Comment, were stupid and can't comment or we'll devulge our precious secret "How to screw up a 2 year head start and lose our asses while trying"

The stupid idiots screw up the Handera launch by 3 months. Then they do NOTHING to promote the damn thing. Finally, they sell 3 and wonder why, don't release OS4.0, only include 2megs of Flash ram in a 330, design an SD card port that wont work with SD accesories. They blew the deal with CompUSA to get units in peoples hands. Sit on their asses for a year while Sony eats them for lunch. Fast forward 1 1/2 years later NO new hardware, No color units, NO OS4 release, NO support for AutoCard (still BETA for 1 year and counting), and a screen format no one supports. And the damn things are over priced as hell for a B&W unit.

I am so tired of blind ass hardcore Handera supporters that blindly kiss Handeras tender stupid ass and justify every stupid mistake this company has made. The problemn in IOWA is they are a bunch of engineer geeks with ZERO marketing/sales skills and a bunch of YES men kissing each others asses. They may have had the balls to try but they sure show no freaking brains in following through. Now H330 users get little or no support or respect from 3rd party applications, No OS4.0, No help from Handera to get 3rd party apps written. Screw them, they want to stay in business start by releaseing OS4 and getting some 3rd party apps to use the damn harware otherwise its just an expensive glorified 5 year old IIIxe PDA.


RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 5:58:11 PM #
"Handera is the only PALM device than can possibly have Wi-FI or 1Gig of expansion."

OK, So no other device can have Wi-Fi because of a lack of CF slot? Well Gee I know of companies developing Wi-Fi SD cards, and Wi-Fi Sleds are out there.

RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 6:56:52 PM #
..and I know a company who develop pshychokinesis SD slot.

get real ok, we are talking about real product here, not some imaginary, soon released in undetermined future.

How big was Palm Inc's promise on this SD slot? supposedly we already have GPS, camera, modem, wireles, and whatever else on SDIO. (but so far.....

RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
mashoutposse @ 6/8/2002 9:41:29 PM #
There is a CF sled available for the NR70/V:

http://www.jp.sonystyle.com/Qnavi/Detail/PEGA-CF70.html

RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 10:12:40 PM #
the Handera is the only Palm that allows you memory expansion and I/O expansion both at the same time. It has voice recording. I can't wait to see what they can do for PalmOS 5
RE: Off topic
popko @ 6/8/2002 10:15:37 PM #
"And just who built the NR70? That's right, a foreign company. It's no coincidence that both Palm and Handspring are in financial trouble. You see, the Japanese are experts in competing against our domestic markets with inferior products. If this continues, our fellow Americans will suffer unemployment. Our standards of living will degrade. We will not allow our economy be ruled by un-American principles."

There isn't much you can do about this. Have a look at your stuff around the house ... most of them are made not made in the USA. You need to face the fact that America does not equal the world (not any more anyway) and there are another 5.8 billion people out side America who also have the need by food and clothing. Boycotting foreign good will not solve the problem either. It will only made America even less competitive and in the long run, the degradeion of the standards of living. So instead of cying out, America need to join the completion and beat the others to win the race.

BTW, the Japanese don't make inferior products, not in this case. If they did, they wouldn't have lasted this long in a free market.

RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 1:34:39 AM #
> There is a CF sled available for the NR70/V:

and last I heard, the only device it worked with was a single wireless modem, plus it adds bulk to an already big device. All these sled devices are going to be slower than CF anyhow, because they either have to go through the serial port or be more expensive plus slower as a USB master device. Then on the software side, the sled devices and Springboards have all had to use PPP for connectivity, so speed suffers there as well. Sorry, but the Clies are the worst choice for any kind of expansion.

RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
mashoutposse @ 6/9/2002 5:19:57 PM #
The sled works with all I/O Compact Flash devices. The only thing that it isn't compatible with is CF flash memory.

RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 5:36:27 PM #
All? Name a few. Where are the drivers for them?

RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 2:24:17 AM #
For all you patriots above:
The handera is made in Korea (Samsung)!

Still a great machine!

RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 12:58:41 AM #
>>
And just who built the NR70? That's right, a foreign company. It's no coincidence that both Palm and Handspring are in financial trouble.
<<

Palm and Handspring may be incorporated in the U.S., but the m5xx series is built in Mexico and Hungary. The Treo is built in Mexico as well.

RE: What reason does Handera have for existing now?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 4:39:36 PM #
"Well Gee I know of companies developing Wi-Fi SD cards, and Wi-Fi Sleds are out there."

There certainly are. And yet, it's more expensive, can only be used on a PDA series vs. a CF card that can be used in PalmOS devices, EPOC devices, PocketPC devices, Laptops, and desktops.

Also sleds are restricted to 115Kbps (the speed of the serial port). CF cards are already much faster on current hardware, with WiFi network hotsyncs faster than USB. And my own informal test of FTP transfers direct to/from SD over WiFi yielding 4-5 times the maximum rate of the serial port. On Arm hardware, we should be able to approach the full rates 11Mbps.

Ugggggggllllly

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 2:28:00 PM #
god is that thing ugly.
Prediction for 2002
Sony buys Palm for $50
Handspring for $20
and HandERA for $1.00

RE: Ugggggggllllly
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 2:47:50 PM #
Prediction for 2002:


Somebody develops a way to filter I.M Anonymous comments. Including this one! Ah!

RE: Ugggggggllllly
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 3:36:09 PM #
Prediction for 2003:

Handera , we will remember you FOREVER.


RE: Ugggggggllllly
higgy @ 6/8/2002 7:39:22 PM #
Talking to yourself? At least have the courage to slither out from under the I.M. Anon handle. If your prediction is like your deodorant, it will not hold up.

Higgy

RE: Ugggggggllllly
BillFugina @ 6/9/2002 11:31:10 AM #
[Quote]
Somebody develops a way to filter I.M Anonymous comments.
[/Quote]

That would be great! Take a look at this:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4995

RE: Ugggggggllllly
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 6:43:30 PM #
I realise I'm off topic about whether the Handera is ugly or not (beauty in the eye of the beholder -- I'd rather beholding (sic) it than reading about it...). However, with regards to the anonymous postings, I think it makes the site much more open and accessible. I know the arguments go round and round and frequently descend into flames but requiring a login will make the site less inviting. However, if the current format does not suit the majority of existing users then it should be changed... How about one of those community votes?

Why make such an ugly device?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 2:52:21 PM #
There are plenty of sleek handhelds out there with close to the same feature set as the 330 (especially PPC deviced with voice recordiing), so why make this thing so incredibly ugly when you can pick from an NR70, 515, or 615?

Just dosent make sense in a world where people want sleek looking devices unless Handera has planned on this being a corporate-only device.

RE: Why make such an ugly device?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 5:26:26 PM #
yeah. and never mind sleek even - they could have easily come up with something better at the same size as this. I am really baffled by this. That ugly white and blue! the way the they meet at the buttons - ichh!!! At least fix the color.
RE: Why make such an ugly device?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 5:54:35 PM #
I don't get the point, I think the colors and the styling look good here. Handspring sold millions of those ugly translucent things, and nobody seemed to complain.
RE: Why make such an ugly device?
higgy @ 6/8/2002 7:42:10 PM #
Art is in the eye of the beholder.

Higgy

RE: Why make such an ugly device?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 1:16:28 PM #
Sorrie guys, functionality aside, that thing does look ugly. If it works fine etc etc, then I believe pple might look at it in a different light...

so meanwhile, it stays ugly

Nattering Nabobs of Negativism

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 3:02:51 PM #
It seems nobody has anything nice to say about this device. I think it looks pretty nice, and I respect HandEra for making as much effort as it can afford to. I just love how the morons here have nothing nice to say about any device except, maybe, the NR70. They act as though putting together a top-notch PDA without any shortcomings or quality control flaws is something any guy can do on weekends in his garage, producing a finished product in, say, a couple of months. These things take vast amounts of time and money to create, and by the time they're done there is no guarantee someone else hasn't passed you up, as Sony is trying to do with ruthless speed.

I'm not saying we should support this device out of pity for the mfr, and, yes, with the unique yet marginalized API of the HandEra screen, this device is probably a non-starter (tell the German to order NR70s--oh right, it isn't going to be sold in Europe), but condemning it for being ugly or behind the times is an mean-spirited, immature form of stating the obvious.

RE: Nattering Nabobs of Negativism
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 3:21:13 PM #
Sympathy cannot help or save this ugly creature.
RE: Nattering Nabobs of Negativism
mikecane @ 6/8/2002 3:24:42 PM #
But it IS ugly. I'm surprised that it looks worse than the H330, as
others have stated. HandEra clearly cannot find a good industrial
designer -- or can't afford one (ie, frogdesign).

That said, it might just photograph badly (as the Toshiba PPC
e310 does).

RE: Nattering Nabobs of Negativism
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 5:23:57 PM #
BUY a NICE leather case for gawd sake......
RE: Nattering Nabobs of Negativism
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 5:30:10 PM #
>>They act as though putting together a top-notch PDA without any shortcomings or quality control flaws is something any guy can do on weekends in his garage, producing a finished product in, say, a couple of months. These things take vast amounts of time and money to create, and by the time they're done there is no guarantee someone else hasn't passed you up, as Sony is trying to do with ruthless speed.

All the comments here are about how ugly this thing is. Nobody said it was an easy thing to make a cutting edge device. But thats precisely what is so stupid about Handeras move here: They build this great device and then when it come to the 'easy part' they create the ugliest case imaginable. For all of the comparisons to a brick that people have written above, i think a basic magnesium box (a 'brick' if you will) would be a vast improvement on this horrid design.

RE: Nattering Nabobs of Negativism
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 6:46:40 PM #
And how easy do you think it is to include magnesium case? Do you know there is NO single company in US that offer magnesium casing product fo handheld? And only a few in far east?

Ever wonder why only Sony can have so many magnesium case in handheld products? (if you count Handspring ugly mold..well there is another one)

NR-70V available in Europe/Germany
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 4:48:06 AM #
Ths NR-70V _is_ available in Germany since about two weeks.

FYI

On a more serious note...

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 3:45:21 PM #
The base connector looks like it's still the III-series serial design. Didn't HandEra say the 330 would be their last with that connector? I know they wanted to use Palm's Universal Connector and Palm said no, but does this mean they've stuck with serial?
RE: On a more serious note...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 4:11:16 PM #
It has been stated that they were somehow going to use the same connector, but still provide USB support. So it is not surprising that it appears to have the same connector.
RE: On a more serious note...
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 5:29:35 PM #
Murphy's law... when I skimmed the article the first time, I missed that line.

This one beats the previous Reynolds wrap version

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 4:43:35 PM #
ooooohhh.
Me thinks Handera, Palm, and um Treospring.. Handspring have no freaking clue how to come up with an exciting product..

Did I read Sonys profits were up because of demand for their handhelds???

RE: This one beats the previous Reynolds wrap version
escobar @ 6/8/2002 5:35:05 PM #
No, you didn't read that, because the Cliť's only account for aprox. 1% (maybe even less) of Sony's total profit!

RE: This one beats the previous Reynolds wrap version
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 6:48:03 PM #
RE: This one beats the previous Reynolds wrap version
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 2:11:57 AM #
Gimme a break Sony is still not making any money on their PDAs. The how would it increase profit? Sony Clie sales is a fractions of 1% of all other Sony sales. Even if they were making money on the Clie's it would be insignificant.

Uglier than Watergate....

sandbuck @ 6/8/2002 5:06:27 PM #
.... but you just gotta admire a company with the ball bearings to roll with the big dogs.

RE: Uglier than Watergate....
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 5:37:11 PM #
Roll? Define "roll with the big dogs"? The stupid idiots screw up the Handera launch by 3 months. Then they do NOTHING to promote the damn thing. Finally, they sell 3 and wonder why, don't release OS4.0, only include 2megs of Flash ram in a 330, design an SD card port that wont work with SD accesories. They blew the deal with CompUSA to get units in peoples hands. Sit on their asses for a year while Sony eats them for lunch. Fast forward 1 1/2 years later NO new hardware, No color units, NO OS4 release, NO support for AutoCard (still BETA for 1 year and counting), and a screen format no one supports. And the damn things are over priced as hell for a B&W unit.

I am so tired of blind ass hardcore Handera supporters that blindly kiss Handeras tender stupid ass and justify every stupid mistake this company has made. The problemn in IOWA is they are a bunch of engineer geeks with ZERO marketing/sales skills and a bunch of YES men kissing each others asses. They may have had the balls to try but they sure show no freaking brains in following through. Now H330 users get little or no support or respect from 3rd party applications, No OS4.0, No help from Handera to get 3rd party apps written. Screw them, they want to stay in business start by releaseing OS4 and getting some 3rd party apps to use the damn harware otherwise its just an expensive glorified 5 year old IIIxe PDA.


RE: Uglier than Watergate....
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 6:58:47 PM #
ummm... there were no SD accessories when the 330 was made. the SDIO standard was still just an idea.
RE: Uglier than Watergate....
sandbuck @ 6/9/2002 10:52:22 PM #
>>Roll? Define "roll with the big dogs"? The stupid idiots screw up the Handera launch by 3 months....

Good Lord! Did one of those Iowa engineer geeks steal your girlfriend? Fire you? Drink your chocolate milk??

RE: Uglier than Watergate....
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 8:21:15 PM #
Ok, moron,
fact 1: HandEra 330s were available in all Sam's Clubs and in a some Wal-Marts.

fact 2: there marketing offices are only in Iowa, so don't blame Iowa. their tech offices are in Omaha, NE

By the way i should mention, i am not of your supposed hardcore handera supporters...I prefer Handspring products..i just take offense at how you blame Iowa.

Thank You.

RE: Uglier than Watergate....
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/12/2002 9:59:47 AM #
I am so tired of blind ass hardcore Sony supporters that blindly repeat themselves (via cut and paste even) over and over on the same forum.

Can't belive that !

ne0 @ 6/8/2002 5:32:49 PM #
What's wrong with you people ? Why nearly all af you are attacking HandEra device ? Maybe you should consider, that for some users cool design is far less important, than things like backward compatibility (accessories !), expansion ports, stable and reliable OS (PalmOS), and useful features (voice recording). I own NR70V (after PalmV, PalmVx, m505, T615C), and I wouldn't trade my CLIE for HandEra 330c, but I do not need most of its features, I prefer 'cool' design - at the same time I use my handheld to organize my life, work, store and read technical docs, and listen to mp3s. I can imagine hundreds of people, who would prefer 330c, because it seems to be much wiser designed than m505 for example - it is simply more technologically advanced than current Palm Inc. products (in my opionion last 'advanced' for its times device from Palm Inc. was PalmV).
My advice: before you say 'ugly' think that for some ppl you are ugly too, for some you may be valuable person :)

--
Ne0
RE: Can't belive that !
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 1:54:00 AM #
> What's wrong with you people? Why nearly all af
> you are attacking HandEra device ?

You need to realize that it is just one or two trolls that keep making the same ugly comments over and over again. Note that ugly is about all one could say, as feature-wise this device is right-on for what many on this site would like to see.

RE: Can't belive that !
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 3:49:03 PM #
Do you also realize that it is one or two fanatical Handera puppets that worship every word and product out of Handera. They are the same ones that make excuses for the utter incompitence of that companies management and refuse to offer critisisim where it is clearly deserved.

Let them support curent users with a real OS update to OS4.1, work with developers to get 3rd party software working and then maybe someone will give their PDA's a second look. But as of now I must warn all potential users to buy elsewhere.

RE: Can't belive that !
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 7:07:40 AM #
HandEra has always worked with 3rd party developers on software support. I have never seen anything to the contrary. Lack of an OS 4.1 update is the only main criticism I can think of. Where is there an example of incompetent management? Incompetence would be building 50 thousand of these if you couldn't get the orders for them.

RE: Can't belive that !
I.M. Anonymous @ 10/1/2002 12:49:11 AM #
I use 330 for 1.5 year, now have bought Clie NR70V... Thanks god I didn't sell 330 first. I thought NR70V will beat 330 easily - WRONG. I am reading a lot - mostly from Handera screen and on travel (and the power outlets are not borne on the trees). The only valuable difference - color (which is useful with backlight only) - is buried under a whole pile of flaws: no native application to use HiRes+ (why Sony made it after all? for cool numbers in press-releases? they absolutely do not use it...) , ****ty camera (why not to have 480x320??? almost the same price as 320x240 but way more application), keyboard hard to localize (hard wired code pages. lazy programmers?), and just 5 hours of continious uptime. And nonreplaceable battery. Period. Clie NR70V is just a nice toy (expensive though). Handera rules. And I do wait for color version... Hope it'll be as brilliant as 330 is. I do not care of its ugly design (330 is REALLY UGLY. Clie is just graceful...) - it is way more functional then any other palm device on the market. IMHO... Anybody wants to buy used Clie NR70V?

Where is Handspring in all of this?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 5:48:39 PM #
They should be offering to buy up a gazillion of these to stick their brand name on. They need to do something to help their pathetic PDA lineup since they killed the Visor/Springboard and are batting an 0-for with the Treo.
RE: Where is Handspring in all of this?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 7:09:22 PM #
I dunno...the new Treo 90 looks pretty interesting. The smallest PDA available, with 16 MB of RAM, a color display with integrated flip-lid, an SD/MMC slot, and a built-in keyboard, for under $300. Not bad, IMHO.
RE: Where is Handspring in all of this?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 7:56:33 PM #
look around and see what you can get with $300 and $350.

you get high res or QVGA transreflective instead of the lower screen quality of treo90, some even is a full blown multimedia capable device.

RE: Where is Handspring in all of this?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 7:56:38 PM #
I don't know if the Treo 90 is *the* smallest Palm OS device, but it's definitely the smallest color one.

Bluetooth?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 8:21:53 PM #
Does this have integrated bluetooth? Or does any Palm device have BT integrated?
RE: Bluetooth?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 11:03:13 PM #
Only one PDA has integrated Bluetooth - the iPAQ 3870.

Mario
msmasitti@qwest.net

Handera

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 9:26:50 PM #
You guys are funny. You must all be Japanese boys whose daddies work for Sony.

Handera 330 was one of the most innovative units to come out of the Palm platform a year ago.
Guess what? Sony took their ideas: Hi-res and virtual graffiti. Handera came out with it.

Yet another instance of innovation coming from, you guessed it: America.

RE: Handera
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 10:11:23 PM #
I am an American and strongly support American companies, but all things aside, I would never, EVER buy a PDA that is as ugly as thing brick is. I mean, its hideous!!! Wrap it in a better case thats pleasing to the eye and market it as something 'cool'. But this is just running on old steam... And the III form factor.
RE: Handera
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 11:07:05 PM #
I agree with your statements. It is in the best interest of all to have as many vendors as possible.
RE: Handera
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 11:12:21 PM #
You know, blind faith will not improve anything.

Liking American company is fine, but you gotta tell them straight that that thing is UGLY. Give them suggestions, feedback on how to improve it.
Consumers shouldnt take being spoon fed.
Otherwise we'll have nothing but broken down old primitive companies.

Being an American company is one thing, its good, but that doesnt give you the right to spit out something as ugly as that, we also have standards here you know.

Prototype?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 11:10:45 PM #
Maybe the design is simply a prototype. Look at some prototype automobiles. Sometimes the final desgin is more widely accepted.

Handera deserves some credit, please!

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 11:18:51 PM #
After using a few Palm/PPC models (Palm professional, IIIx, Vx, m515, Clie T615 (current), ipaq 3630, maestro (current)), I realize who is the real work horse in the PDA herd: handera 330. True, it is not the smallest one, not color, and kind of ugly. However, it gets jobs done: long battery (and switchable), TWO expansion slots (gee, why other Palm OS companies do so???) to accept both memory card and I/O devices (CF wi-fi, GPS, Modem, Ethernet, etc.), and VG. I solute that!

As to color device, well, we will see if this will come to production at all.

IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 11:44:52 PM #
After reading these terribly negative comments, I need to clear some things up with you people.

From the beginning, HandEra said that its main consumer was not the PDA gaming guy (who cares about its color, form, and geek factor mostly), but the business people (who care mostly about useful features, and also compatability with seral computers, price, etc.) Thus, they fortunately make their models not having color of device and form as their first priority. This makes business people happy which IS what HandEra wants.

I don't think people understand HandEra at all. This doesn't mean though, that you shouldn't buy HandEra products if you're not a business person. They're succeeding in what they want to, so they don't HAVE TO have your business anyway. BUT, if you like their products- I do! - its absolutely fine for you to buy them.

Anyway, some of this negative comment comes from not liking the 330c's face color. Well, do you REALLY think that HandEra (a business oriented company) is going to let a businessman go into a meeting with such a colorful and somewhat-unprofessional looking PDA?? I don't think so!:) It must be that Georg ordered or modified his 330c to that blue and white color. It's probably still only a black or maybe dark blue color (normal).

I don't want anyone to get mad here:), it's just that some of you are conused. I think we should praise HandEra for what they HAVE succeeded in! Letís hope HandEra can find 50,000 people to sell 330cís to. By the way, I'm not actually Anonymous, my name is Joel Waage.:) Bless you for reading this far!

RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/8/2002 11:48:41 PM #
Sorry, it's me again, it's serial not seral:).
RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 12:28:14 AM #
What is to understand? They are a compant who produced some very nice hardware and decided to get into the PDA business. The TRGPro and Handera 330 are both nice units. However, they are in business to make money! If they had diversified and sold the TRGPro and the H330 to consumers and produced a follow-up machie in a timely fasion hey would bet king of the heap right now. As is stands they are a bunch of backassward, engineer types who could not sell water in the desert. The reason the Units are so plain is because under their geeky engineering principals asthetics are secondary to function. WRONG, esp in 21st cetury America. I can wrap a turn in nice marketing and info-mercials and sell a gazillion of em.

Second they are no longer the anything leader. They are in fact the biggest joke in PDA's homany H330 did they actually sell? As many as Sony sells in one day? They had Sony with a 1 year head start and did squat with it. They are arrogant, they are stupid and they ar no longer important. So who cares if they offer a H330c at this point? Actually they should worry more about what they are going to do now that they are out of the PDA business. Actually they have just look at their websit under "services" they are back to offering their engineering (not design) services in order to pay the bills. I guess they are calling it a night. I just wish the sineless bastards had the guts to call it and not leave thier users hanging. I mean how long are you dip****s gonna wait for OS4.0? or the infamous H330c? I am sure 90% of the posting about Handera is done by 5 guys who have their asses so far up Handeras ass its pathetic.

RE: Uuuugly
drac @ 6/9/2002 12:40:23 AM #
I think that many persistently ignore the importance of serial connectivity/ Windows NT compatibility to some businesses. I know several businesses that are unwilling to upgrade their machines from Windows NT (as it is working perfectly well for them); USB cradles would not work for users in such an environment.

Also, although I too am not impressed with the aesthetic design of the prototype, it must be remembered that it is just that: a prototype. It would be silly to make comments judging a private functional prototype as if it were a finalised commercial product.


But then, silliness is far from rare, isn't it?


If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we would find in each person's life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility.
~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (1819-1892)

d r. a. c h a r l e s
barbados

RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 12:28:36 PM #
I agree with drac totally.

-Joel Waage

RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 5:05:01 PM #
Yeah... yeah when everything fails, it's always the functionality vs. looks argument. I don't know how many "The HandEra is for the serious people who perfer function over looks" argument I have come across.

My question is... WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?!?? Let me guess...are they:

1.the bussiness executive types... no, because they're more image-conscious. It's better to impress the client by pulling out a sleek Sony(name recognition) Clie than a bulky HandEra(who?).

2.the medical professional...no, we have enough bulky things in our coats already. A small thin PDA like the m515 or the Clie will fit into the shirt pocket a whole lot better than the HandEra.

3.the geeky computer tech...yes, because it goes with their numerous other gadgets that they clipped onto their belts. Image? What image...

RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 10:17:29 PM #
I heard that the most liked PDA by medical people is
Handera 330.

I don't like the ways some people discussed this new device. But their messages do reflect some of the opinions of
many consumers.

Whether they are right or they belong to the consumer
groups that Handera is trying to sell the devices too
is another matter.

In that sense, the current way to speak out might be
right. People might not speak out their honest opinion
if they need to register.

ted

RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 10:59:57 PM #
Hey, I'm a medical person lots of us have Handeras (usually the ones who are more savvy and know what they want the thing to do for them). I have a 505 but like the 330. Our lab coats pockets are more than big enough to hold one. Some scrub front-pockets are a very tight fit (for those of us that frequent the O.R.) Some of my buddies swear by it. It is VERY functional. When you're looking for a tool to make your life easy(like holding a small library in your Palm) and nothing more, the 330 is certainly decent. Besides, when you need key info fast, who cares if it comes from a 330 or a Super-Clie?
RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 6:15:11 AM #
I agree about having a medical reference library at your fingertips, but you can do that with either a palm m515 or with the Sony Clie's. There's not much that the HandEra can do that the Clie or the m515 cannot. So except for having 2 slots, why would you want to carry a bulky unit that will bulge and weigh your scrub pants/shirt, white coat, or your dress shirt down? You can't justified that having an extra slot is worth all that inconvience.
RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 6:44:54 AM #
Well, there's also a voice recorder which a lot of medical people see as important. Otherwise, yes, you can get a thinner device. I don't think HandEra is going to release a thinner device like you want/describe (no CF slot). What would be the point, it would only compete with existing or soon to be existing Palm and Sony models. As it is, this device matches up nicely with the Zaurus or most Pocket PC models.
RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 6:52:57 AM #
"WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?!?? Let me guess...are they: 1.the bussiness executive types... no [ ... ] 2.the medical professional...no [ ... ] 3.the geeky computer tech...yes"

4. pretty much any industry type application where you need inexpensive 802.11b access, mobile bar code and magnetic card scanning, mobile sales, etc. That is where the bulk of HandEra's sales go. Of course, those industries probably aren't going to put up the extra bucks for color when it is not necessary.

RE: IMPORTANT! You don't understand HandEra.
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 12:46:54 PM #
"Second they are no longer the anything leader."...

"You can't justified that having an extra slot is worth all that inconvience."

Yes, you can in fact. What other PalmOS PDA can you use in that environment and still be able to use helpful hardware like a laser barcode scanner (meds, and patient ID's, or stock tags), or Wireless ethernet, will still having your data on a second card, and leaving the serial port free for a keyboard? A Palm? A Sony? A HandSpring? No. There's only one other companies that can do that, Symbol (with models having wireless and Barcode built in rather than optional on the 330). No one goes around yapping that the Symbol PDA's are ugly. The point is, you put this type of fuctionality into your current favorite PDA, and it too will take a hit on aesthetics and size.

What other PalmOS PDA can you charge or give continuous power to via a DC port on the side, while it's on a keyboard or connected to a GPS?

What other PalmOS PDA can today use large storage options other than HandEra's other CF PDA, the TrgPro. You might not need 1Gig (others I know do), but how about 500MB, 256MB? Still tough to get in other card forms.

There are PLENTY of things the 330 is still the only PDA to be able to do. Besides the above, where's the true landscape mode on the Sony NR-70? Where's the voice recording? Where's the AAA fallback (alkaline or rechargeable) from L-ion when you're in Timbuktu?

And there will be plenty more such items in their future hardware and software.

With HandEra the "beauty" is in the details, and functionality. If you have other criteria for a PDA, then quietly move along to other PDA's and be joyful that your PDA platform is broad enough to encompass market niches *you* hadn't considered. That's a Strength not a weakness.

It'll make you seem a whole lot more intelligent than the resounding gongs above who're speaking, rather loudly, on things they've revealed that they are completely ignorant of.

how much is it?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 12:11:03 AM #
I think $350 is a good price.
(BTW, I think OS4.1 will goes into history soon)
RE: how much is it?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 4:51:57 PM #
"I can wrap a turn in nice marketing and info-mercials and sell a gazillion of em."

How about you do us a favor and start with 50,000 and we can get this thing out the door ;-)

anything but Sony

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 2:06:38 AM #
My experience with Sony has been so bad that I would welcome a color Palm device from another manufacturer. However, why not make it an ARM-based device using OS5?
RE: anything but Sony
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 4:26:12 PM #
> My experience with Sony has been so bad

Not everyone can enjoy/understand the good stuff, just choose what suits you.

design vs. functionality

SAS @ 6/9/2002 2:16:55 AM #
What's the matter with you people? OK - everybody has the right of wrong opinion, but such 'charming' comments for something that you even don't know enough about?

The main subject in most of these comments was 'design'. Interestingly - WHY? HE is not a fancy 'toy', it is not something that you will put in your wallet, it's purpose is not to 'impress'. Anyone of you said something about Palm III form factor 5 years ago? It still works fine, if you are not trying to put it among your business cards;) It is sure that they can improve it, but if this is with the price of functionality - NO, thanks.

And this, IMHO, is what the main discussion should be about - the functionality. Who was the first to introduce Palm PDA with expansion slot /and remember when was that/? Who introduced high-res screen on Palm market? Virtual graffiti? Not talking that even nowadays HE 330 is the only Palm PDA with voice recording and dual-expansion slot. They are keeping the Palm III factor and serial connector, because of the compatibility of the accessories. Anyway, who uses the real advantages of USB? Someone synchronizing his 8 MB device? Though - if they really make USB connection using the serial connector design - this will be admirable.

In brief - HE is serious and professional tool for serious people, and HE company is small /<50 people/, but leading, business-oriented company, that probably believes that 'better quality than quantity'. It's like to compare 'Jaguar' with 'Ford' or 'Toyota'......

Last, but not least important - the HE community is not the place when you will read comments like the above:-P)

Enjoy everybody

SAS

RE: design vs. functionality
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 6:57:41 AM #
To me its not a question of black and white.

I still think all the above sarcastic opinions are valid, even the "Charming" ones.

I use a 330 ("serious user") but I could also get really sarcastic about handera marketing (not design for me, but their marketing...). I would want them to be really successfull, but the appropriate clever action is missing...

Example: In german online-forums, there is hundreds of opinions about palm, and ONE opinion about Handera, which is done by the enthusiastic user who also keeps up the german handera-website.

So I can understand that even handera-loyal users get sarcastic.

In spite of that, I also agree to the "functionality"-argument. I had a stylish sony, and I changed back to Handera, because of the accessories and the 2 slots.
I got gps, palmpix and ... for little dollars from ebay. This is worth more to me personally than design...

What I was astonished about was: One year ago, they mainly got admiration for their pda; now, they mostly get sarcasm. Not to value this, but I think its interessting...

RE: design vs. functionality
AWhistler @ 6/9/2002 7:49:28 AM #
You know, I seem to recall hearing discussions like this several years ago. Back then it was about Commodore. They had the best PC out there (The Amiga), but failed because they couldn't sell water in a desert either. Unfortunately, Handera seems to be doing the same thing. I own a HE330, and I tell anyone who asks that if the HE330 had color, I would never need to buy another PDA. I would rather be able to DO THINGS with the PDA than care about what the thing looks like. I think the look of the HE330 is interesting, but certainly not pretty, but that's OK. I didn't buy the thing for looks. My only gripe is the software vendors are ignoring the device. Some have stepped up and offered support for it, but most haven't.

And I don't buy the size arguement either. A coworker of mine recently switched from a Palm V to a Toshiba model similar to the new e310 (but half the RAM). That thing is UGLY compared to any Palm, including the Handera. But it does what he wants it to do, so he switched (MS Office compatibility was a big deciding factor). I hear him gripe about not being able to do some things that are simple for PalmOS, but he still has the device, so he must like it...even though it is far more bulky than his old Palm V.

As for looks of the prototype, I think it kind of looks like a Palm 705. Which is OK for me. I just want to play with the new device before making a purchase, as I want to make sure the screen looks right.

RE: design vs. functionality
SAS @ 6/9/2002 8:21:24 AM #
You are right that from 'marketing' point of view there is quite a lot we can wish from Handera. But again - let's do not forget that they are small company, and probably are not trying to compete Sony or Palm in this area. And maybe they feel 'successful' enough - again 'quality <-> quantity'...

I'll also be happy if there are more news about their products - mainly application support for the advantages of 240*320 screen. But even now - the majority of the applications work quite well, and definitely do not look worse than on any Palm.

Let's hope that they will deserve admirations again;)

SAS

RE: design vs. functionality
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 3:45:35 PM #
Where are the responses from Handera on these discussions? Why will they not post and offer some insight into what is going on, get some feedback from cutomers. Its as if they lost interest in their PDA a year ago. I know they monitor these groups, Chuck? Mike Waldron where are you.
RE: design vs. functionality
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 10:02:27 PM #
>>I seem to recall hearing discussions like this several years ago. Back then it was about Commodore. They had the best PC out there (The Amiga), but failed because they couldn't sell water in a desert either.

Exactly. And when i hear people argue about Mac vs. Windows i just want to scream: Amiga was literally years ahead. Anybody out there edit video with yr PC or Mac in 1987? No? The first true multi-media computer.

RE: design vs. functionality
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 9:36:57 AM #
I have to agree I had an A500 and a 1000 and that OS was way ahead of anything at the time and most OS's up until Windows 98 or so. True multitasking, sound, video, heck it was the first "multimedia" machine.

Remember the Toaster? And Commodore blew it too. That's what happens when you have a company full of engineers and no sales/marketing team.

What is needed is dealers to industrial clients

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 8:30:59 AM #
There is an interesting discussion with more background at pda-buzz handera-forum.

50.000 prepaid units are obviously needed for Handera to start production. These are not coming from private customers most likely, but only from industrial users.

Why? The example of the German Handera Dealer says it all: His customers save loads of money by getting the
Handera instead of PPC or PC-Notebooks.

In contrast, for the given price, all Palm-Fans here would start discussing, that they get a higher resolution with Sony, a smaller Case with Palm, and so on... And for them, thats even a valid argument.

Result (IMHO): - Private users can't be the key-market for a color Handera
- The realisation of this Color-Handera doesn't depend on what we (private) consumers think of it at all! So all these discussions are interesting, but they won't change a thing anyway...

Solution: Dealers with industrial clients should think about what the Handera can do for them and then join the German Handera-Dealer for a preorder-List.

Otherwise all private Handera-Fans won't see the device.

Handera & SONY

robrecht @ 6/9/2002 10:02:43 AM #
If only SONY's soft grafitti were implemented as effectively as Handera's.

If only SONY had I/O options to rival Handera's CF slot.

SONY doesn't even have a full size keyboard option on their T600 or NR70 units.

If only Handera's design and form factor were more seemly.

Thanks, Robrecht

RE: Handera & SONY
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 11:25:53 AM #
SONY ROCKS ! CLIE ROCKS ! hAnDErA ? What is that ?
RE: Handera & SONY
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 12:13:15 PM #
Sony would rock IF it had color screens that weren't so washed out looking, buttons that actually are visible, a more stable OS, cheaper prices, etc. As far as non-washed out color screens, I think Handspring wins with its amazingly tiny, but viewable color-screened Treo 90 thats only $300. At least the Treo 90 has a SD slot compared to the more expensive Memory Stick thing.
RE: Handera & SONY
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 1:48:43 PM #
> Sony would rock IF it had color screens that weren't so washed out looking,

You cannot be serious ! SONY CLIE's color hi-res(+)screen is the BEST of the best ! tReO ? trEO 90 ?!! 12-bit washed-out low-res screen ??! Even Gameboy an do better than that.

RE: Handera & SONY
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 2:07:45 PM #
have you seen an NR70? those screens are amazing, and the T655 screen is supposed to be even nicer...the handera would rock if it were thinner....plus its not very easy on the eyes. maybe it has long battery life.
RE: Handera & SONY
mashoutposse @ 6/9/2002 5:31:25 PM #
"If only SONY's soft grafitti were implemented as effectively as Handera's."

In 80% of applications, the minimized graffiti area on the Handera went unused. Sony's method is more stable, and has seen FAR more support from the developer community. Many of the major applications now support Hi-Res+.


"If only SONY had I/O options to rival Handera's CF slot."

Sony does (at least the NR series does): http://www.xigma.jp/02/clie_NR70_CF/img/2_big_w.jpg


"SONY doesn't even have a full size keyboard option on their T600 or NR70 units."

Yes, this is a problem.


"If only Handera's design and form factor were more seemly."

Agreed. If they're going to insist on a built-in CF slot, howevre, the mcahine will always be brick. That's the downfall of the larger CF format. You'll never get a T-series or m5xx form factor with a slot like that (thank goodness for Memory Stick and SD).

RE: Handera & SONY
robrecht @ 6/10/2002 11:35:02 AM #
Dear mashoutposse:

Thanks for the SONY CF jacket website. More information on whether and how this expansion option could be used on US or European models of the NR70 would be greatly appreciated. Earlier reports seemed to indicate that this might not be possible. In comparison to the Handera 330, I would be looking primarily for both a POTS modem and a wireless modem.

In terms of optimal use of the soft grafitti, I admire how Handera came out with their model and included QuickOffice software that supported their hi-res soft grafitti. Particularly impressive was QuickSheet's support of spreadsheets in landscape mode. Iambic's TinySheet moved quickly to support the SONY version of hi-res+, but they still don't do landscape mode. I hope SONY takes the initiative more in the future.



Thanks, Robrecht

RE: Handera & SONY
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 12:00:24 PM #
Have you seen or heard about the Handspring Treo 90's screen? The review at Pen Computing says that indoors its screen is a little more than TWICE as BRIGHT as the Sony NR70V, Compaq iPAQ, and Palm m515! Outdoors, it says its a LITTLE dimmer than those mentioned above. The review also says that the "Treo 90 appears to have depth as if the icons are actually plastic letters in a nearly-clear wax substrate." CNet says that this about the 12-bit screen compared to a 16-bit screen: "You may be able to spot the difference if you look carefully at photos, but otherwise, you're not likely to notice." The Treo 90 is the lightest color Palm ever (4 oz.), and is very small and portable. CNet gives the Treo 90 an editor's choice award. Shawn Barnett from Pen Computing predicts that it will very popular. The Treo 90 is only $300 compared to the $350-$600 Sony Clies. I wouldn't say that the 90 is unheard of to you now! I'm not saying that the Sonys are bad, but it's just that the Treo 90 is certainly comparable in many aspects. Here are the links to the reviews:

http://www.pencomputing.com/palm/Pen45a/treo90.html

CNet: http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q2AC52701

-Joel Waage

RE: Handera & SONY
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 1:16:43 PM #
"In 80% of applications, the minimized graffiti area on the Handera went unused."

?? Ya, but virtually 100% of High-Res ones used it. The same will be the case for Sony HR+ apps. And yet, what percentage of apps out there currently use this already on a Sony? Let's just start with the built in apps. How many of the built in apps make full use of the high-resolution *and* virtual graffiti, vs. all of them on a HandEra?

"Sony's method is more stable, and has seen FAR more support from the developer community. Many of the major applications now support Hi-Res+"

Cite?

Sony does (at least the NR series does): http://www.xigma.jp/02/clie_NR70_CF/img/2_big_w.jpg

That's a picture of hardware. To validate, provide a link of devices that have driver support. Every I/O accessory on HandEra's site has driver support (and when it comes to ethernet and WiFi many more non-listed cards will function under their generic drivers).

"(thank goodness for Memory Stick and SD)."

Now if you only had two slots, and an equal number of i/O expansion options (with PalmOS drivers).

RE: Handera & SONY
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/12/2002 5:25:39 PM #
>"If they're going to insist on a built-in CF slot, howevre, the mcahine will always be brick."<

Not necessarily. If the guts could be miniaturized a little, the SD slot could be moved to the side, since with CF onboard, you wouldn't need it for I/O functions. This would make a thinner unit possible because the slots wouldn't have to be "stacked" on top of each other.

If it must be brick, the N760C form factor is still a good shape that fits nicely in the hand, and is thick enough to "stack" the slots one above the other, if you move the IR port over a little bit.

Just my $0.02 =)

Sean

Coming clean about my 330

Quik_Fix @ 6/9/2002 10:35:43 AM #
I had a 330 for a year. I liked it a lot. I used the voice recorder all the time and I appreciated the virtual graffiti (though will so little support, I rarely used it.) I loved that the speaker was loud enough to wake the dead 80 miles away from me and that I didn't have to give up any of the accessories from my IIIc when I bought it. I used both slots for memory cards and was happy.

Eventually it got old, so I thought I'd treat myself and I bought an m130: cheap and color, with expansion.

Then I had my revelation... My eyes were opened.

I had no idea all that time of how unstable and lackluster the 330's support for expansion cards is. The m130 was like a bolt of lightning while accessing the card compared to the 330. Also alot of people don't realize that the 330 doesn't have a system like the Palms where you insert the card and a new category pops up. You have to use AutoCF or Autocard to access them, meaning you have to know how. This was resolvable with Megalauncher (or Launcher or whatever), but I didn't know how much work I was putting into using the expansion.

The 330 was also unstable. The voice recorder often froze, requiring soft resets. You couldn't beam anything from off of the card without a 3rd party launcher. And hack slowed down its speed drastically.

I loved it for the time I had it, but I was ignorant. I have now bumped myself up to the 515 and I am in love. It's much smoother than the 330, in looks and function.

I just wanted the 330 owners out there to know that there are smoother expansion options out there. You may not know what your missing.

...In accordance with the prophecy...

Quik_Fix
quikfix@hotmail.com

RE: Coming clean about my 330
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 10:46:58 AM #
> The 330 was also unstable. The voice recorder often froze, requiring soft resets.

Sounds like you never upgraded the OS from the first version that came with it.

RE: Coming clean about my 330
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 2:51:39 PM #
This may be a repeat as I may have indavertantly sent a truncated post. I use both a Handera 330 and a Palm m515. All my real work is done on the Handera, and I use the Palm only for pleasant colors. My reasons for using the Handera as my base unit: power management (in over 1 hour of continuous typing, I lose only 2-3% of battery power, and none if I have the charger plugged in while typing), key programs that support hi-res and virtual Graffiti (Wordsmith, QuickOffice, Bonsai), data integrity (over 6 megs backed up on CF using bulit-in software in less than 20 SECONDS, and in about 45 seconds on SD-and restore is almost as fast and perfect). (Incidentally,Palm m515 backs up 6 megs on SD in 3 minutes using additional cost 3rd party software.) Would love a color 330, and could care less about design factors.
RE: Coming clean about my 330
abosco @ 6/9/2002 3:38:33 PM #
Thank you for coming clean instead of completely glorifying it. All you Handera ass kissers should take a lesson from this guy.

Is it too much to ask for a device with as much functionality as the Handera 330 with a quicker card reader and processor that doesn't look like a cellular phone of 1986???

BTW- Is it really necessary for SD and CF slots if it can't support SDIO???
One more thing- Make the thing a little more pleasing to the eye!!! I understand that the people who buy this device are looking for functionality, but MY GOD!!! It's like going into a business meeting with shorts with a Hawaiian shirt and some shiny Iversons! They better make this thing come with detachable faceplates like the m100 series!

Bosco

RE: Coming clean about my 330
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 3:41:13 PM #
But why are we still screwing around with OS 3.5 and AutoCard/AutoCF etc... access to external storage should be built into these things by now.

Why are the idiots at Handera not working with developers to write programs that use the capabilities of the hardware? 240x320 screen, dual expansion slots, the recorder. Come on if they don't give a **** about their machine and users why should anyone else?

RE: Coming clean about my 330
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 4:28:01 PM #
But this is not the experience of many other Handera users. The mature, logical response to accounts of differing experiences is not to start smearing the group you disagree with as being "ass kissers".

I have wanted a 515 on occasion, but NOT for the card access, which I found to be significantly SLOWER than the 330's.

No, the appeal of the 515 for me would lie in form factor and the colour screen. But, I am not really willing at this point to accept the tradeoffs- diminished battery life, weaker speakers, lack of virtual grafitti area, no voice recorder, etc., etc.

Right now, we can't get it all, and Handera has been best-of-breed for many.

It would be wonderful if certain posters could simply accept that in a courteous manner, even if their own perspectives differ...

RE: Coming clean about my 330
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 4:33:11 PM #
AutoCF was never intended for the 330, and both AutoCF and AutoCard are more advanced in their functionality than the more simple apps that just copy programs and databases to RAM. Obviously too complex for the original poster. Of course all of those apps/launchers supporting expansion cards (except the one built into OS4.x) work just the same on the HandEra 330 as his m130 or m515.

Yeah, it's too bad HandEra hasn't released 4.1 for the 330 yet, but otherwise the orginal poster's rant is a lot about nothing.

RE: Coming clean about my 330
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 4:42:28 PM #
> BTW- Is it really necessary for SD and CF slots if it can't support SDIO???

How else am I going to use 802.11b and a memory card at the same time?

RE: Coming clean about my 330
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 1:28:42 PM #
"But why are we still screwing around with OS 3.5 and AutoCard/AutoCF etc... access to external storage should be built into these things by now.

Why are the idiots at Handera not working with developers to write programs that use the capabilities of the hardware? 240x320 screen, dual expansion slots, the recorder. Come on if they don't give a **** about their machine and users why should anyone else?"

Come out from under your rock and see each and every point addressed. Current OS, has full VFS support, including launch on card insertion (start.prc). Most of the major apps have QVGA support. The only thing it doesn't have is the OS4 VFS aware launcher. So what. Like that's a bad thing. Who but you and Palm thinks it's a great idea to have 15 categories for RAM based apps, and one for all the CardBased apps. Regardless wether you're using a Palm OS4 device, or a HandEra 330, if you're a big VFS user, you're using a 3rd party VFS launcher anyway, like Launcher III.

Cutting edge handheld... of a few years ago

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 10:41:25 AM #
Although the pictures are few and not very telling, this handheld looks like one that should have
been released several years ago. The screen looks fairly washed out and the form factor is huge
compared to more "modern" PDA's. It's a shame Handera is having a hard time keeping up with
other handheld companies, competition is a good thing.
RE: Cutting edge handheld... of a few years ago
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 2:30:23 PM #
Huh?? I have no idea what you are talking about. It has the hardware function/expansion features of a Pocket PC which are unavailable on any Palm device (except the current 330). Size-wise, it is the same size (in many cases smaller) and lighter than other current devices with the same feature set.

Handera still suits me fine

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 12:14:42 PM #
This is my first post in this whole thread. Sad to see so many threads get ugly.

I just thought I would say that I take a close look at every PDA that comes out and have yet to find something better _for me_ than my Handera 330.

The two slots rocks. Good on them for going with CF a few years ago with the TRGPro and then adding the SD slot. These guys were ahead of their time and as far as I am concerned still are.

Has anyone noticed the updated and redesigned 'Expansion Options' page on their web site. Pretty slick. Not sure when they changed it. I was there today looking at WiFi cards.
http://www.handera.com/solutions/acc_expand.asp

I am in Japan and we have a few CF PHS (Personal HandyPhone systems) cards that work beautifully. I leave the DoCoMo 64k Comp@ct P-in card in most of the time. Occasionally I pull my DDI Pocket card out of my ThinkPad and connect at 32k, but flat-rate. The Symbol or Socket WiFi card is next.

I couldn't imagine pulling out these cards everytime I wanted to back up. I just leave a 64MB SD card in and back up often. In my opinion, backing up is the killer app.

Oh, speaking of which, those 256 & 512MB Panasonic cards are now very easy to find here. I have an SD camera (Minolta DimageX) and MP3 Player (IO-Data ExRouge) and I have read that the bigger cards work, so I expect them to work in my Handera. I'll find out soon enough.

Let's all admit that one size doesn't fit all and nothing positive can come from most of the negativity.

But yeah, the thing in those photos doesn't look so hot, but I could get used to that, the color and additional memory if it were to come out before I have found something better.

Handera and the CF slot

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 3:42:54 PM #
The CF slot is what has me voting for the Handera. With the demise of the springboard, this is the remaining option for geting a CF card onto a Palm system. Besides the fact that that is what my camera uses, for memory cards CF is way cheaper and a much larger capacity than either SD or memory stick. Also, the interface to memory cards seems be better on the Handera. Now if they would only make their sound I/O stereo, I could get a half decent recording machine w up to a half gig of storage space...

Where is a resonse from Handera?

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 3:54:02 PM #
Should the company not at least be commenting on some of the issues brought up in this forum. While I don't agree with all points there are many valid points that really should be addresses. Handera's usual "no comment" is getting really old in the tooth. As an TRGPro owner and potential H330 buyer I feel I deserve to get some facts straight from the horses mouth. No comment i will take to mean buy elsewhere.
Re: Where is a response from Handera?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 4:12:13 PM #
Many companies don't allow employees to talk about their products on the Net. Don't know about Handera but you'll never read a message from a real Sony employee here. They'd get fired, no matter what they said.
RE: Where is a resonse from Handera?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 4:30:13 PM #
Oh, I think you're seeing lots of messages from people on the Sony payroll on this site. Anyhow, this was posted over the weekend, so I wouldn't expect to hear anything then.
RE: Where is a resonse from Handera?
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 4:33:29 PM #
>Oh, I think you're seeing...
Oh, poor poor poor baby, don't cry...
I know you are sad and envious (Palm/Handspring/Handera employee ?) But the world needs the best, not the worst, so there is nothing we can help you. Have a good day.
''Read it on our website...''
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 4:36:41 PM #
When I mailed Handera months ago they told me,
anything new would be on their website...

Really, what else should they say...? ;-)

Why there is no OS 4.1 for HE330

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 5:23:57 PM #
It's obviously not a technical issue. HandEra's engineers are quite capable and obviously have OS4.x for their internal use (as evidenced by this prototype unit).

What that leaves is that it is a matter of money. Think about it: Palm/PalmSource is an unprofitable company. Thus, the licensing terms for OS 4.x are likely to be very front-loaded (a big chunk of money up front, and a smaller per-unit charge). It's very unlikely that it is licensed completely on a per-unit basis.

Given that the OS 4.x upgrade is not particularly compelling for most users, they aren't going to sell a lot of copies. Sure, I'd buy it. And the very vocal minority of power-users would too. But the average corporate IS department or industrial user is NOT going to get the upgrade. That means they couldn't sell enough upgrades to recoup the cost of the OS license -- and raising the price would only lower the # of upgrades they would sell.

HandEra's problem is not an inability to innovate or a desire to rest on their laurels. It's an unwillingness to hemmorage money for the sake of cool factor. And I, for one, think that's a good thing.

RE: Why there is no OS 4.1 for HE330
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 6:39:51 AM #
and/or because they are working on additional features for hi-res and CF Bluetooth card support. Possibly some combination of both. I'd like to see/buy it too.
RE: Why there is no OS 4.1 for HE330
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 9:31:57 AM #
But how long can a company work on something. I mean come on I was told OS 4.0 would come out "soon" by Handera when I bought my 330 and that was a year ago! Come on enough is enough, they are full of it. Release the damn software already. Palm just went Gold on OS5 for gods sake.
RE: Why there is no OS 4.1 for HE330
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 10:55:47 PM #
palmos 4.x is never going to happen for the he330 because it just doesn't have enough flash to support palm's enhancements over 3.5x and handera's own enhancements. the new color model likely has 4mb flash vs. the 2mb for the original he330.
RE: Why there is no OS 4.1 for HE330
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/14/2002 11:10:53 PM #
As was previously stated a few messages below, that is untrue. The size of the ROM is not the issue.

Too many flamers and trollers on this site

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 5:57:57 PM #
Palminfocenter: please make it mandatory to have everyone log in and get an account name in order to post.

It's full of little boys who are just learning how "neat" it is that they can spew out verbal garbage all day without getting caught by Mama and papa.

What a bunch of losers.

Too all the little trollers with the little peckers: Kiss my butt!

Handera Rocks!!

RE: Too many flamers and trollers on this site
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/9/2002 8:16:57 PM #
For someone disgusted with Anonymous postings you sure are being hypocritical not having a log in yourself! Haha!

Anyway. I am anything but a troll or flamer but the system Ed has working for us now is just fine. I would think twice about posting if I had to log in simply because I, and Im sure many others are too lazy to do it. Some of the best posts on here have been from Anonymous fellows, and if it bothers you so much, why not just ignore the flame wars from geeks for obviously have no lives.

morons

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/10/2002 7:32:30 PM #
All you all are morons here. First, everyone wanted to see color HandERA, and now, when it is rumored to come out, everyone complains about it. Go get a life!
RE: morons
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 12:34:18 AM #
Yea cause we wanted to see it a YEAR ago! Kinda useless to come out with it now don't ya think? Especially since they have not done squat in over a year with the current unit.

To Answer the OS 4.1 Question....

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 1:22:59 PM #
To Answer why HandEra hasn't come out with a OS 4.1 upgrade for the current HE330 is because the 2MB ROM doesn't have ENOUGH ROOM for OS 4.1 and HandEra system extensions for Virtual Graffiti, Voice recording extensions, CF & SD/MMC IO extensions, etc.....

So, PEOPLE - Read and understand - Its NOT PHYSICALLY possible!

That's why the new "HE330c" will have a 4MB ROM instead. The 16 MB RAM is going to be a nice option too!

And to quickly address why the HE330 is such a great "useful" Palm OS PDA is because:
* Built-in Voice recorder
* Real Speaker with Amplified output
* CF Type II slot (IBM Microdrive compatible)
* SD/MMC slot (use for apps/ backups while using CF slot!)
* Old Palm III serial interface for backward compatibility with MANY existing products on the market, including businesses (and hospitals) that are still using Windows NT 4.0 that doesn't support USB
* Virtual Graffiti (of course)
* LED for both charging notification and missed appointments - it will continue to blink until you acknowledge it - a truly nice feature - too bad Sony doesn't do this...
* LiION Battery option with side charger (so you can use serial interface for whatever (keyboard, GPS, etc.) and not worry about running out of power. Plus, normal battery option if you don't have a place to recharge.
* Jog dial w/back-out button / Voice record. Voice files are saved as .WAV files. PLUS ability to save directly to either CF or SD/MMC card!

One item I wish the HE330 had and that would be a vibrate feature option for the alarm. It would be nice if this were an option, along with

Sony has nice color screens and high resolution, but no recording feature - this would have made it a close alternative replacement for this HE user, and if I could "BUY" a CF sled for the Sony models here in the STATES (USA), but you can't....

All in all, if this new prototype is HandEraís NEW 330c - it should be pretty good. Epson mentioned at Palm Source that they were supplying the video graphics chip for Palm and HandEra, so the speed should be pretty good - considering Epson also supplies that same graphics chip for Sony.

Plus, if the new HE330c device has OS 4.1, then it will be Bluetooth compatible - so we will be able to use Symbol's CF Bluetooth card - something I've been wanting for a while now (have a Sony-Ericsson T68i I've been wanting to take full advantage of)

Like many have posted here before - there is really only one PDA that fits into that "perfect" category, and that is the PDA that WORKS for YOU - if it doesn't work for you then its not the perfect PDA for you - and leave it at that - lets not bash things just because it doesn't look the way WE think it should - that's fine - that's how you feel, but other's may and probably don't. Its just like the old saying goes:

"One person's trash is another person's treasure."

- PalmZealot

RE: To Answer the OS 4.1 Question....
I.M. Anonymous @ 6/11/2002 4:59:45 PM #
"To Answer why HandEra hasn't come out with a OS 4.1 upgrade for the current HE330 is because the 2MB ROM doesn't have ENOUGH ROOM for OS 4.1 and HandEra system extensions for Virtual Graffiti, Voice recording extensions, CF & SD/MMC IO extensions, etc....."

Bzzzt. You're propagating a myth that has been beaten to death. OS4.1 is not a single package. There are optional pieces. It's why you can buy OS4 upgrades for 2MB flash devices that only shipped with OS3.5 HandEra has stated that the 2MB ROM is not an issue for them on the 330 for OS4.1, or they wouldn't have said that an update would be made available at some point.

There are a select few outside of HandEra with first hand knowledge that this is so. Other than the leak that started this whole thread. HandEra NDA's seem to have been quite effective, and thus myths like the one you're furthering are a little harder to stamp out.

Learning to Juggle...

orb2069 @ 6/12/2002 3:45:41 AM #
A friend of mine juggles enthusiastically. He told me that when he first learned how to keep three objects in the air, people would always ask 'Can you do four?'

He worked and worked on it - It took almost a month. But he could juggle four tennis balls.

And the first thing said to him after he showed somebody was 'But... Can you do five?'

That took him almost four months.

And the first person he showed off to said 'Can you do six?'

TRG starts off by making 8mb memory expansions...
And makes 8MB expansions with 4MB Flash RAM.

(But can you...)

Then makes the TRG Pro
(A Palm-OS PDA that read like a laundry list of fixes for the Palm III - Including that godawful loud alarm!)

(But can you...)

Then makes a PDA that has not one, but TWO media slots! And collable graffiti.

(But can you...)

And now they've made one that's got twice as much RAM, and is color to boot - and the only thing people can find to gripe about with it is the case color???

They must be close to perfect, then.

I /am/ the eggman.

This will never be mass produced.

orb2069 @ 6/12/2002 4:00:44 AM #
HE's too small of a company to waste it's money mass producing a dragonball-based machine at this stage in the game.

If I was going to put $5 down on it, here's what I'd say was going to happen:

They'll bide their time, wait untill PalmSource and Palm have got a shipping model that uses ARM processors. THEN they'll finalize their work to make sure that it's compatable, and THEN release it.

And everybody except the Sony Trollz will be standing around agog, just like the last two times.

Oh and the development time for the 330c wasen't lost - I'm willing to bet they billed Symbol for at least part of it. :)

I /am/ the eggman.

Why so much loose and ill talk--not required, simply.

I.M. Anonymous @ 6/13/2002 1:16:17 PM #
WHY is everybody slagging-off HandEra? No, but really why? Is there money involved at all? Do you think, really?

I work in a hospital. It's kinda serious, so i've been told. I like the HE330. Plenty of room, large screen, sizeable fonts (small when I'm reading on my own but large for a verbal presentation), truly GOOD backlight (even tho its heavy on the juice a bit), voice notes for when my boss doen't give me the time to write, backup and reinstall (shld the need arise, knock on wood) which is VERY quick (16 secs to backup), illuminated virtual graffitti area which is essential cos the other doctors like to show LCD projector stuff in dark rooms and the rest of us are supposed to have photographic memories, and some more.

I don't mind that it does not look like a Palm V, I find it more functional. I don't know if I would splurge for colour cos I don't like to have to watch the batt meter. I think the Palm 515 doesn't even last 48 hours with the beam receive left on. (that's 2 days & not 48 hrs of continuous use).

If u do make a device in colour, make sure that the batts last a whole lot longer cos I actually work with my "palm" and don't spend time looking at porn pix! Colour is nice, but it shouldn't be a compromise like it is with the Palm 505s etc.

I don't care what it looks like on the outside so long as it does not look like a toy. And it should fit into my trouser pocket; IIIx factor is not bad.

Oh and by the way, did you know that the OS 4.x extensions which allow for external memory card access like on the Palm 505 etc are SLOWER than memory card access on the 330? I bought an SD card but much to my chagrin, found out that this new factor only has a 4 Bit bus. MMC cards even have a much worse 1 Bit bus. CF has a 16 Bit bus and is much faster. I have Harrison's and a load of iSilo books, some with pictures, on my Hi-Res handera and it does the job without a struggle. Quick, painless, and I don't look dumb waiting for something on the memory card to load in front of my patients. nuff said.

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